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  • in reply to: Wooden boat 4450 – new deck, etc #20858
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Chris,

    Epoxying:  I would indeed expect one coat of epoxy plus several coats of varnish to be appropriate.   I would aim for at least six coats of top quality varnish,  rubbing down between coats.

    The headline epoxy is WEST,  but there are various others,  and the major yacht paint manufacturers (International,  Hempel,  etc.) offer epoxy primers.    One which I have seen advertised (regularly,  in Classic Boat),  but have not yet had occasion to use,m  although it looks sufficiently impressive for me to consider using it in future,  is Smith’s Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer,  from Make Wood Good,  https://www.makewoodgood.co.uk/product/cpes-clear-penetrating-epoxy-sealer/.

    The WEST System resin is primarily designed for bonding and laminating,  for both of which it is truly excellent.   However when used as a primer for varnish I have found that it is physically hard work to subsequently sand it really smooth,  even using an orbital power sander.    I have also found that it needs to be left far longer to cure before painting or varnishing over it than at first appears;   if varnish is applied too soon after it has apparently cured,  the varnish will not cure properly.   Part of the solution may be to remove the “amine blush”,  as explained in the Gougeon instruction manual,  but I nowadays reckon on leaving the epoxy for at least 48 hours (even in high summer,  and perhaps a week in colder temperatures) after it appears fully cured before I apply any paint or varnish over it.

    Even with the wood thoroughly epoxied,  including on the “blind” side,  I would be hesitant to use 2-pot paints and varnishes;   I have found in the past that if there is any movement at all at the edges of the ply panels,  two-pot paints are too hard and too inflexible to tolerate the movement,  so they crack along the joints in the ply,  and that allows water to get in underneath the paint or varnish.    Therefore I always advise against 2-pot paints and varnishes on vintage GP14s,  although they are excellent on new construction.

    However I discovered that problem before the modern trend of first coating the wood in epoxy became mainstream;  so I have insufficient first-hand experience of epoxying and then varnishing a vintage boat,  anhd the jury is still out on this question.

    An excellent alternative to overcoat WEST epoxy is top of the range conventional paints and varnishes.   I happen to be most familiar with the International Paints range,  from which I would choose Toplac enamel and Schooner varnish (not to be confused with Schooner Gold,  which is a very different product,  and personally I don’t like the way it flows out  –  or doesn’t).   Schooner Varnish is a tung oil product,  and is (or has been  –  I have not checked the current documentation) described by the manufacturers in terms which put it second in gloss only to their two-pot product,  and better than any of their other conventional varnishes,  and of very high durability.   However the other yacht paint manufacturers no doubt offer similar products,  and I do not hold a brief for any one manufacturer as against another.   Indeed on my GRP trailer-sailer yacht I have used Hempel Monourethane on the cabin and cockpit,  and have been very pleased with it.

     

     

    Mast step conversion:   the conversion raises the position of the mast step (by 12 cm,  from memory),  as in the Series 2 boats,  and therefore shortens the (metal) mast by that amount in order to keep the sailplan at the same height;   this converts the Series 1 mast into a Series 2 mast.   For identification purposes,  amongst other reasons,  the type of mast foot and step are then changed to the pattern for the Series 2 boats.

    Given that you have a wooden mast,  you would seem to have a number of options,  which include:

    • Shorten your wooden mast by the appropriate amount,  (and ideally change the foot and mast step).   This will inevitably mean that your mast is no longer usable on any other GP14,  and it will also take the mast out of class,  both of which you may perhaps consider a very serious drawback.   You will also very probably have to move the lower sheave boxes.
    • Fabricate a (removable) metal tenon fitting to enable your mast to sit in the Series 2 step (which is a particular track fitting),  and just accept that when using the wooden mast your sailplan will be that much higher in the boat;   you will need new,  and longer,  standing rigging in order to do this.   Keep the wooden mast for “high days and holidays”,  and acquire a secondhand metal mast for everyday use;   if the latter happens to be Series 1 (i.e. with a square foot) convert it to the Series 2 format (tenon foot,  and shortened by the appropriate amount).   Make up suitable cheek pieces to line the slot in  the deck when using the metal mast,  because it is 10 mm(?) narrower than the wooden mast.   If converting what appears to be a Series 1 mast,  do measure before you cut;   I did once buy what purported to be a Series 1 mast,  and which indeed had the square foot of the Series 1 design,  but which had nonetheless been shortened to the Series 2 length  –  so beware,  and measure!!
    • Provided the structure is in fully sound condition,  decide not to do the mast step conversion,  and simply limit your rig tension accordingly.   A fully sound vintage boat should be strong enough to handle rig tensions available from any tensioning device up to and including a Highfield lever;   but the tensions obtainable from a muscle box or a powerful cascade tackle would be a grossly unfair load on a boat which was never designed for such loads.

    Hope this is of help,

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Wooden boat 4450 – new deck, etc #20853
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Chris,

    First,  your original post was initially suppressed,  because it was almost exclusively formatting commands.   I would guess that you probably wrote it in some other program and then copied and pasted it to here,  and that is what then usually happens in such situations;   unfortunately the software of this website does not recognise Word commands,  or those of other wordprocessing programs.    I have recovered the post,  and have deleted all the formatting commands while trying not to delete any of your intended text,  but please check that all your intended text has survived the editing.

    Second,  your image has not appeared because it exceeded the permitted file size;   that limit is set by the system,  and is applied automatically,  and we cannot override it.   Could you please re-size the image,  and then upload it again.

    I am just about to go out for the rest of the day,  but I will try to respond to your queries either this evening or tomorrow.    No doubt others will also respond.

     

    Oliver

     

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by Oliver Shaw.
    in reply to: New member and owner of 5794 #20833
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    The “Series 1 to 2 Conversion” is quite rare.

    Aluminium keelband is more popular than stainless,  beause it is lighter.   If you want stainless you may have to source it from a stainless steel stockholder rather than a chandler.   If you have difficulty in finding it I can probably point you in the right direction once I get back home from holiday,  second half of next week.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: New member and owner of 5794 #20825
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Simon,

    Welcome aboard.   You have chosen a superb and very versatile dinghy class.   Let’s hope your club opens for training before the season ends.

    Yes,  there ahould be a keelband to protect the wood;   choice is brass or aluminium or stainless steel,  with aluminium being probably the most popular.    Several chandlers stock it,  and most ohers should be able to obtain it for you.   I apologise that because I am currently away on holiday I don’t have access to my usual sources,  but you might usefully try Trident Marine or Speed Sails (as was;  now a new name);  Classic Marine for brass,  if you feel that historical authenticity is a priority for a vintage boat of this age and if her other fittings are brass or bronze.

    The Association has digitised records of most GP14s,  although there are a few gaps;  available on request via the Office.   Meanwhile I can at least give you a steer on when she was built;   according to my records,   sail numbers 5001-6000 were issued in 1962-3.

     

    Oliver

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by Oliver Shaw. Reason: Typos
    in reply to: GP14 Cruising Sails #20456
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Now sold.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Cruising boat advice please #20449
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Johnny,

    See the paper on Fitting An Outboard,  in the Members’ Area.   Any further questions do feel free to get back to us,  but I suspect that you will find that paper answers most questions on that topic.

    As regards builder and model,  I suggest that you first decide what type of cruising you wish to do,  and what specific cruising features you are looking for,  and also make your choice between wood and fibreglass.   Because you are intending to buy second-hand,  even if as recently as just one year old,  the choice of builder is likely to be secondary;    with the one reservation about the increasingly well known problems of rotting plywood backing pieces within the structure of GRP boats (which is a solvable problem) I am sure that all professional builders of this era did a competent job.

    Amongst those owners who have attended organised cruising events over the last fifteen years,  the split is about even between wooden and GRP boats,  just as it is for top level racing.   The choice becomes a matter of personal preference.

    If you want to sleep aboard on a regular basis,  I am sorry to say that the GP may not be the best choice of class;   but she is quite superb for day-cruising,  and is amply capable of carrying camp kit for camping ashore.   For occasional sleeping aboard,  I think the Series 1 has some advantages over the Series 2,  because there appears to be more space between the underside of the thwart and the floorboards;   just enough to permit sleeping on the floor in the Series 1,  but agony to try to do so in the Series 2.   However I say that I think that is the case because I speak from having tried it out,  not from actual measurement;   and the trials were several decades apart,  so it is at least possible that the effects of anno domini may be the explanation rather than an actual difference in height.

    Features that I myself specified when I had A Capella built in 2005/6 included the following:

    • Reinforced transom,  with a view to potentially fitting an outboard (although in the event I could never bring myself to do so)
    • Improved seating comfort,  achieved by a combination of increasing the width of the side bench slats,  plus minimising the number of control lines brought out to the thwart (initially kept to kicker only,  with space on the mounting block to permit Cunningham and rig tension to be added later if required,  but in all the years since she was built I have had no wish to move the latter to there),  together with deliberately low profile mounting blocks for jammers
    • Transom sheeting,  both to minimise obstruction in the cockpit and to enable me to face aft during a gybe,  in order to allow me in big waves to choose my wave (or my “smooth”) on which to execute the gybe.    Note that transom sheeting can be achieved in a variety of ways,  and with a modern powerful kicker there is no need for the sixties-style full width sheet horse,   but that is nonetheless one way of rigging transom sheeting,  and having decided that I wanted transom sheeting I then choose that method of rigging it purely for cosmetic reasons.
    • Sockets for crutches (a.k.a. rowlocks)

    Useful additional features,  some of them important,  which readily be retro-fitted if necessary,  include:

    • Slab reefing for the mainsail,  and roller reefing for the genoa.    See my paper on Reefing Systems in the Members’ Area.
    • Anchor/s with 30 m of warp plus 2 m chain,  plus anchor fairlead/s and mooring cleat.   See the paper and/or the PowerPoint Presentation on Anchoring,  again in the Members’ Area.
    • Oars and crutches/rowlocks
    • Masthead buoyancy
    • Topping lift
    • Tiller brake,  to enable the helm to be left unattended while I attended to other tasks,  or took photos,  or whatever
    • Steering compass
    • Every item of equipment tied in,  by means of lanyards terminating in carbine hooks,  with a copious set of stainless steel strap eyes under the cockpit coaming for these carbine hooks to clip on.
    • Seriously large access/ventilation hatch/es to forward buoyancy tank,  to enable it to also be used for storage;  mine were (I think) 11 inches diameter.    Fit a strap eye just inside the hatch,  and ensure that everything stowed in there is clipped on,  so that if it migrates forward it can be readily recovered.  I used that space for stowing my fenders.
    • Personal kit including hand-held marine VHF,  worn on the person

    With the exception of the above details we decided to stick with basically the modern racing rig.   However the rig tension,  achieved by a muscle box,  was cleated off on the mast,  without the additional 2:1 inside the boat which I would have had on a racing boat,  and I routinely set it up hard and rarely if ever slacked it off;   that was entirely satisfactory for cruising in all conditions except very light winds,  and it helped to minimise the number of control lines brought out to a position where they were at risk of being sat on  –  which is primarily a matter of sitting comfort.

    The Cunningham was rarely used,  and my arrangement for it could have been improved.

    The kicker was attached by means of a snap shackle at each end,  so that it could readily be completely detached when required;   this was an essential intermediate step in mainsail reefing,   prior to my decision to fit a topping lift.

    See also the paper on Suitability for Cruising and Single-handing.

    I am not aware of any GRP boatbuilders building specifically cruising boats;   but any stock GRP boat should be capable of being adapted for cruising.   Builders of wooden boats are better able to work to a cruising specification when required,  but Tim Harper is the only one that I personally know to have done so,  and that may possibly be for just two boats;  Ivan Washington’s Vertigo and my own A Capella.   It is of course possible that other builders may occasionally have incorporated special specifications,   and with the exception of the wider seat slats most of my modifications above can be very readily retro-fitted to an existing wooden boat.

    Hope this is helpful,

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: New Member and New Boat #20422
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Mark,

    Your photos have not appeared;    you will need to re-size them,  as the maximum file size which the system will accept is 512 KB.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: New Member and New Boat #20420
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    As glassfibre she could be one of a small handful of models.    That is not my area of special expertise,  but if you can identify the builder,  or post a photo,  I trust that someone else can direct you to where to find the number.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: New Member and New Boat #20418
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Congratulations on your purchase;   enjoy!

    You don’t tell us which model she is.    If Series 2 (i.e. wooden) look on the aft face of the centreboard casing,  just above the false floor;   depending on your layout it may possibly be obscured by toe straps,  spinnaker halliard,  or whatever.

    If she is one of the glassfibre boats (including FRP and epoxy boats) the number should be permanently marked in the hull in accordance with the relevant Licence Agreement  –  which is specific to the particular model.    However it would be worth looking on the hog (if visible),  or in as near as possible the equivalent position to that on the wooden boats;   otherwise you will have to tell us which model you have,  and then I hope that someone on the forum can help you.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: What's in a name? #20415
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Peter bought her from somewhere in the Warrington area,  and sailed her in Liverpool.    Neither is desperately far from Cardigan Bay,  perhaps 150 miles,  so the Cardigan Bay period could have been either before or after Peter’s ownership of her.

    Reminder that you can get the Association’s digitised records for the boat from the Office on request.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: What's in a name? #20401
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    What’s everyone’s thoughts on boat names? 

    You might enjoy the whimsical article “Naming A Boat” which I wrote some years ago,  and which appeared in Mainsail (Spring 2008 issue).   Unfortunately that issue is not on the website;    the link labelled as that actually brings up the Summer 2008 issue so I presume that we don’t actually have the file for the Spring one.

    I will email the article to you.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: What's in a name? #20400
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Sounds like the same boat.

    When Peter joined the club,  many years ago,  he was looking for a boat and with the intention of trying out various different types.   Until,  that is,  I took him out in A Capella,   whereupon he announced that his initial search (to evaluate what type of boat) had ended and that he was now looking for a GP14!     When he found Jelly Roll II advertised I went along with him to vet the boat.

    The then vendor was (I think) the chap who had done the Series 1 to 2 Conversion,  and he produced copious photographs of the work.   Slightly to my surprise,  and I think perhaps his also,  she ended up significantly lighter than before he started the work,  although I don’t remember whether she was fully down to minimum weight.

    Glad to know the boat is in good hands.

     

    Oliver

     

    in reply to: What's in a name? #20397
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Within the Class Association we had a brief period,  from 1954 and for the next 13 years,  when we insisted that names of newly registered boats did not duplicate names already registered,   although this rule was not applied retrospectively.

    Then in 1967 the practice was discontinued.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: What's in a name? #20396
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Steve,

    I think I recognise the name. ..

    Is she in fact a Series 2,  or a Series 1 with the “Series 1 to 2 Conversion” done,  (i.e. underfloor buoyancy,  etc.),  and previously owned by my good friend Peter Johnson of Liverpool Sailing Club?

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: BEGINNER’S GUIDE TO RIGGING THE GP14 #20394
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Steve,

    Thank you.   Would you email it to me,  please;    cruising@old.gp14.org

    Regards,

     

    Oliver

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