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  • in reply to: Bell Woodworking restoration #15124
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Sorry;  for technical reasons which I am unable to debug  the system would not allow me to post a response by any means other than composing in another format and then copying and pasting.   Trying to post direct produces a forbidden / unsafe content error message.

    As we all know,  composing in another format and  then coying and pasting results in visible formatting commands;  and any attempt to remove them again produces the same error message!

    For the moment I am stumped,  but I hope that you can just ignore the formatting verbiage to get to the content …

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Bell Woodworking restoration #15123
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    <span style=”font-size: 9.0pt; font-family: ‘Georgia’,’serif’; color: #333333;”>Sorry;  didn’t spot your final question.</span>

    <span style=”font-size: 9.0pt; font-family: ‘Georgia’,’serif’; color: #333333;”>You don’t get rid of the chain plates,  you merely install different ones lower down,  below deck.</span>

    <span style=”font-size: 9.0pt; font-family: ‘Georgia’,’serif’; color: #333333;”>I have no first-hand experience of lifting bridles for launching by crane over a dock wall;  that seems to be far more prevalent in USA than in UK.    We more usually launch from a beach or slipway,  by floating the boat off a launching trolley.   But I have seen photos,  and my impression is that the usual solution when chainplates are below deck is a pair of wire strops coming up through the deck, attached to chainplates below deck.</span>

    <span style=”font-size: 9.0pt; font-family: ‘Georgia’,’serif’; color: #333333;”>How you guys attach your lifting bridles when the mast is already stepped and the shrouds attached and tensioned is another matter;  but you will know your own systems!  !!</span>

    <span style=”font-size: 9.0pt; font-family: ‘Georgia’,’serif’; color: #333333;”> </span>

    <span style=”font-size: 9.0pt; font-family: ‘Georgia’,’serif’; color: #333333;”>Oliver</span>

    in reply to: Bell Woodworking restoration #15121
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    The original design for the boat had chain plates above deck,  but there are some benefits (largely of comfort and of convenience while sailing) of having the shrouds pass through the deck to terminate at chain plates below deck,  and the rules were changed as early as (I think,  and once again from memory) 1952 to permit this as an option.

    Nonetheless the “traditional” rig,  with chainplates coming up through the deck,  was still in use in new build until at least as late as 1959,  to my certain knowledge  –  because at one time I owned such a boat,  and indeed that arrangement was entirely usual in dinghies generally as late as the mid-sixties.

    The benefits of through-deck shrouds are set against the greater difficulty,  some might call it fiddliness,  of attaching the shrouds below deck if you frequently tow the boat,  or for other reasons have to frequently step and unstep the mast.

    I suggest that for your purposes the most important consideration is easy compatibility and interchangeability between your two rigs.    So I suggest that you adjust the shroud lengths of your new mast to fit the existing chain plates of your boat.

    Hope this helps,

     

    Oliver

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by Oliver Shaw.
    in reply to: Bell Woodworking restoration #15114
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    What exactly is the aluminium mast?

    If it is a Series 1 GP14 mast it should fit the existing mast step as it stands,  but unless it has the original cheeks for the mast gate (fitted to the original metal masts) you will need (hard) filler pieces to go inside the gate to restrict its movement side to side.   Any hard material that you have available will do,  but it does need to be reasonably incompressible;  plywood,  or hard plastic is fine;   foam rubber is not.   From memory,  5 mm thickness each side.

    If it is a Series 2 GP14 mast it is slightly shorter (I think 12 cm again from memory) and has a different foot.   If you want to make this interchangeable with your original wood mast you will need an adapter piece  –  plus a certain amount of engineering and ingenuity  –  to lengthen it.

    If your aluminium mast is anything else then some ingenuity may be needed.   But fitting a Series 1 mast foot may well be possible,  and the rest is basic ingenuity and adaptation.

    The series 1 mast foot was still readily available last time I looked,  (try Super Spars,  or Speed Sails),  and indeed when I bought a new Series 2 mast from Speed Sails about 10 years ago it was supplied as standard as a Series 1 and then shortened in their workshop to the Series 2 length and the foot changed;  it seems that it is cheaper for the manufacturer to supply just the one design,  and then adapt it,  rather than supply a choice of two designs.

    Hope this helps,

     

    Oliver

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by Oliver Shaw.
    • This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by Oliver Shaw.
    in reply to: Mast step replacement – MKII GRP advice #15102
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Replacing like with like should be fairly straightforward,  and from memory Steve White documented this photographically a few years ago on the GP14 Owners Online Community site.

    I confess that I started to reply,  having misread your post,  thinking that you wanted to do the mast step conversion,  which is most usually done either to address hull weaknesses or to permit modern rig tensions.   Modern rig tensions are vastly higher than the boat was originally designed for;   the technology to produce them simply did not exist in 1949 when the boat was designed.

    I now realise that that is not what you were asking about,  but if you are going to do some surgery anyway it is perhaps worth considering,  although less pressing than in a Series 1 (i.e. wooden) boat of similar age.   What follows is specifically for that conversion,  and not for a straight like for like replacement.

    The only case which I personally am aware of where this conversion has been done in a GRP boat is one which (around 10 years ago) was at Neyland Yacht Club.   If you wish to pursue this you might think it worth contacting their GP14 Class Captain to be put in touch with the owner concerned.

    Otherwise use your judgement,  but aim to preserve the original location (in plan view) and probably raise it a bit and use structural (e.g. solid mahogany) filler pieces underneath in order to be able to spread the load over a good long length of the keel and perhaps also the frame that is immediately forward of the centreboard case.   If you can also strongly bond the structure into the case itself as well,  that will further help to spread the load.

    The official mast step conversion for wooden boats raises the step by the exact amount corresponding to the difference in length between the Series 1 and Series 2 mast,  and changes the step for the track (and tenon in the mast foot) as per the Series 2,  so the Series 2 mast then fits.    If keeping the old Series 1 mast it is a simple matter to cut off the required length and just change the foot.   For the sake of future interchangeability of masts I would suggest that it would be worth working to that specification.

    From memory the amount you need to cut off the old Series 1 mast is 12 cm,  but do please check;  I stress that I am quoting from memory only.   The mast lengths can be found in the Class Rules,  which are in the Members Area on this site.

    Hope this helps,

     

    Oliver

     

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by Oliver Shaw.
    in reply to: Deck boards – replacement / alternative #15088
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    You must have at least some means of keeping your feet off the bottom of the boat,  not least for structural reasons;  this spreads the load,  and the GRP is not designed for large localised loads.

    Look up the Class Rules (on this site) for the floorboards;  the original (for the early wooden boats) were wood slats,  somewhere around three and a half inches wide,  with spaces between,  but by the time of your boat most builders had opted for plywood,  which has a number of benefits.   So far as I am aware all the early GRP boats used plywood floorboards,  and later plastic ones used plastic mouldings.

    Don’t worry about them weighing a ton;  for cruising,  weight in the bottom of the boat is a positive benefit,  while for racing you will need to conform to Class Rules anyway  –  and amongst much else they specify floorboards and they also specify a minimum weight.    Existing boards weighing more than they should because they are soaking wet are of course a different matter.

    An erstwhile opposite number of mine  –  our terms overlapped as Commodores of our respective neighbouring clubs  –  once met Jack Holt at a Boat Show and asked him what he had done in designing the GP14 to make her such a superb sea boat.   He got a one word answer:   “displacement”!

    Given that yours are starting to rot I would recommend replacing them.   But you do have some options as to the detailed design.   Have a look at the Class Rules;    even if you don’t intend to race,  they are an excellent guide to what works well on the boat,  although there is no reason why a highly experienced owner who does not intend to race should not modify the boat a little.   I had someone only the other day  –  in “another place”,  to borrow a term  –  who has an Osprey mast on his GP14,  complete with trapeze …

     

    Oliver

     

    in reply to: Beading on bow of GRP GP14 – Repair #15075
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    A general purpose silicone sealant would almost certainly do,  but many knowledgeable sailing people argue that polysulphide sealants are better,  and cost about the same.

    Another possibility is a flexible sealant-adhesive,  such as CT1 https://www.marinescene.co.uk/product/4920/c.t.1-underwater-marine-sealant,  or the appropriate type of Sikaflex.

    I have also recently been recommended HA6 sealant,  which is a marine quality silicone sealant,  but I have not yet had any occasion to give this a trial;  https://bond-it.co.uk/premier-range/ha6-rtv-silicone/

    Hope this helps,

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Boat identification – Model and year #15074
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    My records show that sail number 10164 was issued in 1972.

    The definitive “Class Bible” on the history of the GP14 hull is the article by Roy Nettleship which appears in both The Basic Boating Book and 50 Years On The Water;    the latter was our 50th anniversary anthology,  and is long out of print (but may still be available via the usual second-hand book sources),  but there is a scan of my copy on this site.    And a fascinating book it is;   well worth a read.

    The record suggests from the date of your boat that she is almost certainly a Mk. II GRP boat.    A fairly conclusive confirmation will be found if the side buoyancy tanks extend right aft to the transom leaving a gap between them in the centre of the transom (to accommodate transom scuppers) AND there is a former for a mainsheet horse across the aft of the transom.   When built,  the Mk II had transom sheeting,  and although some have since been converted to centre sheeting removing the former for the horse amounts to a degree of modest surgery,  so even on boats which have been converted to centre sheeting the former is usually left in place.   (The Mk. I boats had a different buoyancy arrangement,  and the Mk III had no former for the mainsheet horse.)

    Incidentally Roy’s article mentions (some of) the various builders who produced Mk II boats but does not mention your one,  Bossoms Boatyard.   They are a well known boatyard,  still in business http://www.bossoms.com,  and it is interesting that they were among those who produced this model of GP14.

    Hope this helps.

    Talking of Toy Nettleship,  there is a superb quote attributed to him.   Apparently he was on the Association stand at the Dinghy Show in about 1989 when a punter asked him how long a GP14 would last.   “I’ve no idea, ”  said Roy,  “the design’s only forty years old.”   And as we approach our 70th anniversary some of the boats from the very first year of the class are still going strong!

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Centre Board #15039
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    The key question is whether the inside of your centreboard casing is true enough,  and sufficiently undamaged,  for a friction brake to work properly.   Elderly wooden boats may have a problem with warped case sides,  or badly degraded (and therefore very rough) inside faces,  but younger wooden boats and virtually all plastic boats should be free of this problem.

    So if you are confident that a friction brake will work in your case you should undoubtedly fit one.   Most modern boats use a short length of hosepipe which is deformed by squashing one diameter by means of two screws and a pressure strip;   this causes the hose to swell along the perpendicular diameter and so provides the friction against the case side,  and adjusting the two screws allows you to control the amount of friction.   However some of the early GRP boats (I think those by Thames Marine and later those by Bourne Plastics) used static friction pads in the sides of the case with an external screw adjuster.

    If for whatever reason a friction brake won’t work in your case,  and the fact that a previous owner removed it may just possibly indicate that there was a problem,   you will have to use an alternative solution.   The simplest solution then is a lanyard attached to the handle,  leading aft,  to hold the board down,  and this can be secured to any jamcleat of your choosing.   However it is vitally important that the board should be free to rise if you strike an underwater obstruction,  or the bottom,  so the cleat which I recommend is the CL257 which is specifically designed for the equivalent application with rudder blades;   it will hold securely until the board hits an obstruction,  and it will then release.   The latest generation of this cleats even allows you to adjust the load at which it trips.https://www.clamcleat.com/auto-release-racing-mini.html

    That code is the Clamcleat designator;   RWO make an apparently identical product,  indeed it may be identical and there may be a licensing agreement between the two companies,  and I think the RWO code is just 257.

    Hope this helps,

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Repairing Nicks in Milanes Rudder and Centreboards #15005
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Try WaterTite (from International Paints),  or Plastic Padding Marine Filler;   both are 2-part epoxy fillers,  and if you feel it absolutely necessary to fill without priming the underlying wood I would have confidence in using them.

    However a better job would surely be to first seal the wood with a suitable primer,  and then fill on top;   I think that might give better adhesion to the wood.

    For a primer,  I myself would be inclined to use International’s “Clear Wood Seal Fast Dry”,  which despite the mouthful of a name is an excellent (2-part) clear primer;  either polyurethane or epoxy,  although I forget which.   And,  as the name implies,  it is quick drying;  at this time of year one can apply four coats in a day.   But then,  in part,  I would be inclined to use that product because I normally have some in stock and I use it fairly regularly;    there are of course alternatives.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Repairing Nicks in Milanes Rudder and Centreboards #15002
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    “Unless you plan to make a habit of going aground on gravel (!) …”

    If your type of sailing or the location of your usual sailing water is such that this is a significant risk,  you could consider letting in a narrow metal strip to protect the leading edge.   In my university days in the early sixties we did this as standard with the rudder blades on our college Fireflies,  using thin brass strip nicely bonded with Araldite and faired in,  and I have occasionally done it on other boats over the years since then.

    However in many inland locations that won’t be needed.

     

    Oliver

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by Oliver Shaw.
    in reply to: Newly joined. #14931
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    I know very someone prominent in the Association who I hope may be able to be of help to both you and your club,  and I have just emailed him.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Newly joined. #14870
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Do you have any sailing clubs near you which sail GP14s?   Failing that,  any clubs even if they don’t sail GP14s?

    That might be both an excellent way to return to sailing,  and enjoyable camaraderie,  plus mutual assistance,  and a very useful source of hands-on help in sorting out your new acquisition.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Newly joined. #14867
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Congratulations on your return to sailing;   enjoy!

    According to my records,  sail number 10547 was issued in 1973.

    You are absolutely right that the kicker should not be fitted to its present position;  that has all the potential for a real nightmare!   It should be secured to a pin on the aft side of the mast extrusion,  and there are plenty of photos available of the various ways it can be rigged,  both on this site (browse the Members Area) and the GP14 Owners Online Community site.

    Hope this helps,

     

    Oliver

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by Oliver Shaw.
    in reply to: Bell Woodworking restoration #14829
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Looks good,  thus far.

    Congratulations,  and enjoy.

     

    Oliver

Viewing 15 posts - 496 through 510 (of 708 total)