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  • in reply to: Reefing a Series 2 Holt-Speed FRP GP14 #14762
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Glad I have convinced you!

    The block for the boom can be quite a small one.    A dozen years ago I bought all my reefing kit on A Capella from Rob Helyar,   http://www.flexible-reefing-spars.co.uk,   and I can recommend him;  his prices are fairly mainstream,  but most important is that he has developed and refined the systems and is well geared up to exactly what fittings are suitable.

    Self-tapping screws are fine for attaching the cleat to the boom provided you don’t have any internal lines running through the boom.    If you do have such lines (and the outhaul may well be one such) I recommend pop rivets,  as being kinder to the internals.

    If you don’t manage to borrow a pop riveting gun they are not wildly expensive to buy,  although I do think it is worth going for a moderately heavy duty one,  such as the one in this kit;  https://www.diy.com/departments/mac-allister-chrome-vanadium-steel-rivet-starter-kit-set-of-100/705913_BQ.prd,  rather than a more lightweight one.   It is always worth investing in decent tools,  and this one is perhaps mid-range;   it looks like the one that I have,  and it is just up to the job with the largest size of rivet (from memory 5 mm).    However if you can borrow one,  well and good.

    I say this particular tool is just up to the job with the largest size of rivets not because of whether the tool itself will withstand the load,  but because of the amount of brute force you personally need to apply to the grips when working at maximum capacity.

    Hope this helps,

     

    Oliver

     

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by Oliver Shaw.
    in reply to: Stepping mast single-handed #14748
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Seamus,

    I think the result indicates that the method doesn’t work!!    (I have not edited it this time.)

    Just type it straight into the typing pane on this forum.

    Sometimes a minor pain,  but at least it works.

    Regards,

     

    Oliver

     

    in reply to: Stepping mast single-handed #14739
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    I didn’t even get as far as inputting the test post.

    Clicked on the Text tab,  and got a set of coded fields which I didn’t understand.

    Not the way to go,  I think!

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Stepping mast single-handed #14738
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    I remember a few years ago I had a similar problem,  which we never fully resolved at the time,  but Andrew Bray (I think) asked me how I had input my material,  and whether I had used the Visual tab or the Text tab.  (Top right of the typing pane)

    I still haven’t experimented with that,  but it might be worth trying to input pre-formatted material in the Text tab and see what happens.   I will do a test post in a moment (and then delete it),  and report back.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Stepping mast single-handed #14736
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Seamus,

    Thank you for that;  some interesting ideas.

    Re the HTML,  or whatever the formatting commands are;  it seems that this website doesn’t accept anything copied and pasted from other formats.   And even just using the ENTER key to move to a new line is a formatting command.

    My guess is that the formatting commands which this site uses,  and recognises,  are not those used by other programs;  so if you format something in a different program it picks up the formatting commands but doesn’t recognise them and doesn’t know what to do with them  –  so it prints them as text.   Less than ideal,  but that seems to be the way things go!

    The only solution I have found is to actually compose your posts within this forum pane.

    I have edited your post to remove the formatting commands,  and it now makes sense.

    Hope this helps,

     

    Oliver

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by Oliver Shaw.
    in reply to: Reefing a Series 2 Holt-Speed FRP GP14 #14728
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Thinking further about this,  you have correctly identified that your proposed simple reefing system “will not be as quick or easy to reef a sail as (my) method”,  but until you have actually been out there trying to do the job it may not be so obvious that speed and ease  –  and reliability  –  of the reefing system are all important aspects of safety.   As is the quality of set of the reefed sail,  because that determines its efficiency;   in particular it determines the ratio of drive (which you want to maximise) to heeling moment (which you want to minimise),  and it also affects how high you can point.   Whether the ability to point well is relevant in any given situation depends on whether you will need to work to windward in order to get home,  but forgoing in advance the ability to do so is rather like playing Russian Roulette.

    Another consideration,  pertinent to my second paragraph,  is that the very last thing you want is for your efforts to reef the boat to themselves cause a capsize.   That means that you want to be able to do the job with your weight either in the middle of the boat or on the weather side,  and you certainly don’t want to be doing any more than you absolutely must on the lee side of the boat.   Likewise you don’t want to pull the boom central until you are able to get your weight to weather to counterbalance the boat and keep her upright.   That is why working on the end of the boom during a reefing operation is such a problem.

    Hope this helps to explain the situation.

     

    Oliver

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by Oliver Shaw.
    • This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by Oliver Shaw.
    in reply to: Reefing a Series 2 Holt-Speed FRP GP14 #14716
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    It would indeed work  –   after a fashion …   …

    But think about the circumstances in which you would want to be pulling down a reef at sea.     It will be blowing hard,  perhaps not a real hooligan,  but certainly outside your comfort zone;  that is why you want to reef in the first place.    Will you really want to be working at the outer end of the boom in a 14-ft dinghy in something of a maelstrom?    I know I wouldn’t!!

    The second point is that once reefed you want,  and indeed need,  the sail to be as flat and as efficient as possible.   Are you really going to achieve that by just tieing down the clew with a simple lanyard and a reef knot?    I doubt it;  I forsee the sail setting like the proverbial set of old lady’s underwear.

    To achieve adequate flatness of the sail you need the clew reefing pennant to be pulling aft at least as much as it is pulling downwards.  And the tack pennant needs to be pulling forwards at least as much as it is pulling downwards.   So setting up primitive ad hoc lanyards while actually at sea in hairy conditions is going to be an absolute nightmare.

    Your approach is an excellent solution if you are badly caught out,  you most desperately need to do something,  and the boat is not properly set up.   Been there,  done that,  myself;   and in my case it was while single-handing a borrowed yacht,  not a 14-ft dinghy.  But it is not something to aim for.

    I strongly urge you to take the modest time and trouble,  and embark on the modest expense,  to get it right,  with a really top class system.   And then practice,  practice,  practice;    so that when you do get badly caught out  –  and sooner or later it can happen to any of us  –  at least you are adequately prepared and in as good a position as anyone to cope safely.

     

    Oliver

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by Oliver Shaw.
    in reply to: Securing GP14 Mast Gate #14666
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    It is a lot simpler than you perhaps imagine.

    I appreciate that your boat is fibreglass,  but with a wooden boat I would say use two round head screws,  one at the pivoting end,  and one at the “latch” end;   at least 1 inch long,  and diameter to suit the holes in the gate.    Ideally also use a washer either side of the gate at the pivoting end.   The jury is out as to whether to use a washer at the “latch” end;   if you do,  it will spread the load of the screw head,  but it will also make it that little more fiddly to close the gate  –  unless of course you bond the washer to the underside of the screw head (Araldite,  or equivalent would be a suitable adhesive).    A great many owners use just the “raw” round head screw head,  with no washer,  at that end.   That concept may well be adaptable to your fibreglass boat;  I suspect it probably is,  but make up your own mind.

    If you are using modern rig tensions,  as I think your boat does,  you will find that when you first step the mast you cannot easily close the gate,  but once you apply full rig tension (via the genoa halliard) you can then quite easily close the gate  –  with just a modest push forward on the mast if need be.   With the mast fully in the gate,  and the gate closed,  the mast will be slightly bent;   that is intentional with the modern rig,  the mast is designed around this,  and it is known as pre-bend.   Welcome to the world of modern high performance rigs,  with bendy spars!

     

    Oliver

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by Oliver Shaw.
    • This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by Oliver Shaw.
    in reply to: Bell Woodworking restoration #14663
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Well done on the restoration.

    I can give you recommendations for UK suppliers for boom-up covers,  and I am sure they would ship over the USA,  but you may find something suitable in your own country without incurring the shipping costs.   But let me know if you would like recommendations for UK suppliers.

    Rig dimensions;  you should be able to find these in the Class Rules,  which I am sure are available on this site.   Start in the Members’ area.   But do feel free to ask again if you need one of us to pick it out for you.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: Reefing a Series 2 Holt-Speed FRP GP14 #14661
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    I agree with Chris;   you appear to have a racing set-up.

    If you want to fit a reefing capability,  which I warmly endorse,  I strongly recommend that you go for slab/jiffy reefing;    see my paper on the topic in the Members area of this site (click on All about your GP14,  and you should then find it).    However this direct link should work http://old.gp14.org/members/members-2/all-about-your-gp14/

    With slab/jiffy reefing you won’t need a reefing claw;  that is relevant only for roller reefing,  but to my mind in the debate over which system to use the jury is no longer still out.    Roller reefing was standard when the GP14 was designed,  and the GP14 was designed with that system,  and it works adequately.    However slab/jiffy reefing is a whole order of magnitude better;   it is quicker and easier to pull down a reef while at sea (which is vitally important if conditions freshen while you are out),  and quicker and easier to shake out the reef if the wind drops,   and in addition the sail sets better when reefed than it does with roller reefing.

    I hope and believe that my paper above will provide all the details that you need,  but do feel free to get back with any further questions.    You mention that your boom is be Super Spars;   so were my ones on both Strait Laced and  A Capella,  which are copiously illustrated in the paper.    Fit a pair of slides (the type with eyes),  with screws to lock them in position,  to the track underneath the boom;   use freely positioned small single blocks as turning blocks for the leach reefing lines,  and use 3 mm dyneema to tie each of these to its slide beneath the boom.    The system will repay the investment of a modest amount of time in setting it up ashore to get the positioning of everything right,  but once you have the location of the slides correct the blocks will look after themselves;    and you should never need to change the position of the slides again as long as you still have the same sail and boom,  so you can lock them in position and more or less forget about them.

    You will need to have reef points fitted to your sail,  but you may do better to look for a purpose-built cruising sail;  that will be cut flatter than your racing sail,  and it will set very much better when reefed.   It will also be differently constructed,  and from a different cloth,  which will enable it to stand up much better to the sort of abuse it is likely to get when cruising,  including being crumpled up and then sat on or stood on.    If you are lucky you will find a second-hand cruising sail which already has reef points fitted,  but if you need to fit them to a sail which does not already have them then I draw your attention to the measurements given in my paper.

    If budget is a consideration initially,  use whatever sail you have available and simply fit the reef points (or get them fitted);    a sailmaker may perhaps be able to also recut the sail for you,  but that will be at an additional cost,  and you will have to evaluate whether it is worth the expense.    In the longer term the luxury solution is a brand new purpose-made cruising sail,  complete with reef points;   and if either now or in the future you decide to go down that route I warmly recommend Edge Sails,  who in the days when I was actively sailing GP14s (not all that many years ago) were the sailmaker of choice for cruising sails in the class.

    Hope this helps,

     

    Oliver

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by Oliver Shaw.
    in reply to: A few carpentry issues…. #14579
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Thank you for the compliment,  Steve,  and in the long term I concur wholeheartedly that the mast step conversion is the way to go if Ben is keen to race the boat at top level.   But in the short term,  he has only just bought the boat,  described as being “in excellent condition and ready to sail”,  and he is rarin’ to go.

    Assuming that the boat is indeed in sound condition the mast step conversion can wait a little,  perhaps scheduling it as a job for next winter,  provided he is content to sail with more modest rig tension in the meantime.    And he can then enjoy some excellent sailing as soon as he can get her in the water.

    But when the time comes for him to do the mast step conversion I am sure that your encouragement,  and your photos,  will be most valuable.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: A few carpentry issues…. #14573
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Mast step:   Yes,  clean up,  treat with epoxy,  and then overcoat the epoxy with either paint or varnish.    Cosmetically you would probably prefer varnish.    Overcoating is essential because the epoxy does not contain a UV inhibitor,  and so it degrades in sunlight.

    If the step is merely screwed in place  –  and I don’t know whether Don Marine did or did not glue it in place  –  this job is most easily done if you take the step out of the boat first.

    That is always provided that if you have the original (square) mast step and mast foot sitting directly on top of the hog,  you do not use excessive rig tensions.    If however your mast step is a track,  sitting on a plinth about 12 cm above the hog and with a long support piece underneath,  and the mast step is a tenon (longer fore-and-aft than it is wide) which slots into the track,  then your boat has had the approved mast step conversion done,  you can use modern high rig tensions in perfect safety.

    The boat was designed in 1949,  long before anyone even thought of applying today’s modern high rig tensions.    Nonetheless the boat is so heavily over-engineered that there is still reasonable latitude for increasing the tension beyond whet was achievable when the boat was designed.    I have always believed that tensioning devices up to and including a Highfield lever are fine with the original construction,  provided the boat is in sound condition.

    But an 8:1 muscle box or 9:1 cascade tackle,  tailed in either case to a further 2:1 inside the boat,  giving either 16:1 or 18:1 purchase respectively,  is definitely so far outside the original design criteria as to risk serious structural damage,  which in the worst case could see the mast pushed through the bottom of the boat!   Modern race fleets,  when set up for stronger winds,  typically set the static rig tension at 440 lb-f,  and that is before the wind loading even starts.    That static loading alone can impose a load of up to around 3/4 ton force on the mast step (depending on how the genoa halliard is brought out of the mast and terminated),  and remember that this is before the wind loading even starts;    and the boat was never designed for these loads.

    There are two solutions available,  arguably three.

    Solution no. 1 is to limit yourself to the sort of rig tensions that the boat was designed to accommodate.   If you limit tensioning devices to a toothed rack across the halliard,  or alternatively a Highfield lever,  or alternatively a simple block and tackle (I suggest no more than 3:1 purchase,  possibly 4:1 if you are brave),  you will be fine.

    Solution no. 2 is to fit the approved mast step conversion,  which entails some woodwork surgery,  and which is designed to strengthen that region of the hull specifically in order to accommodate modern rig tensions.    Plans and details should be available from the Class Association office.

    Oh,  and solution no. 3?    This one is surprisingly popular,  but how well it works is another matter:   hope for the best,  and pray hard!

    Hope this helps.

     

    Oliver

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by Oliver Shaw.
    • This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by Oliver Shaw.
    in reply to: Complete Beginners guide to the GP14 rigging #14569
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Dave,

    Excellent news.

    Congratulations,  and enjoy!

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: A few carpentry issues…. #14555
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    CT1 sets to a moderately flexible product;   certainly polysulphides,  and I am assuming CT1 also,  have better better long term flexibility than silicone sealant.

     

    Oliver

    in reply to: A few carpentry issues…. #14551
    Oliver Shaw
    Moderator

    Floorboard supports:

    First an explanation of the construction.

    The timbers across the boat supporting the floorboards are of two different types,  although beneath the floorboards themselves they superficially look identical,  and they alternate.   One set are frames,  which form part of the structure of the boat,  and which help to determine the shape of the hull;   there is one of these (the famous frame no. 2,  which sets the limit in the Class Rules of where the bulkhead of the forward buoyancy tank may be placed) immediately ahead of the centreboard case,  another one (no. 3) in way of the after part of the case (from memory,  in way of the centre of the thwart),  and another one (no. 4) about half way between the after end of the case and the aft end of the cockpit.   These frames can be recognised,  once you know what to look for,  by the fact that they comprise two separate parts,  a lower part across the bottom of the boat,  and an upper part extending up the side of the boat,  with a substantial area of overlap where the two parts are jointed together with a glued joint.   Alternating with the frames are floorboard bearers,  which serve no function other than taking the weight of the floorboards (and anything placed on them,  including the occupants of the boat);    they are much more lightly secured to the boat,  and as a minimum,  at the outer end they rest on the chine pieces (and are probably screwed to them),  and at the inner end they usually rest on the hog.   There is some means,  which varies between builders,  to keep the inner end in position and prevent it just flopping around.   In the middle they may (or may not) rest on the stringer,  and they may (or may not) be screwed to it.   One of these floorboard bearers,  midway between frames 3 and 4,  lies immediately abaft the case.

    The detail of how they are fitted varies between different builders,  and I suspect that this detail may well not be shown on the plans.   At different times,  around 30 years apart,  I have owned two professionally built Series 1 GP14s,  both by top builders;  the earlier one,  no. 4229,  was by R. R. Sills,  who were widely regarded as the Rolls Royce of GP14 builders of their day,  while the later one was a Don Marine boat only modestly older than your one,  no. 11930.   If memory serves correctly,  and after nearly fifty years perhaps I may be excused if it doesn’t(!),  the construction at the inboard ends of these timbers different between these two boats.   The Don Marine boat had the ends apparently housed in a mortice in a piece of thick ply on the side of the centreboard case.   The Sills boat did not,  and the bearers just terminated against the case  –  indeed I cannot be sure that they even touched the case,  and there may possibly have been a small gap;   however I suspect that on that boat the floorboard bearers may have been screwed to the hog,  and they may also have been screwed to the stringer.   In any case,  once the floorboards are fitted they themselves will be sufficient to keep the bearers in place,  and it is only when the floorboards are removed that there is any need for a specific provision to retain the bearers in position.

    So,  your repair:

    Clearly the decayed ply will have to be removed.    Now have a good look at the construction of your particular boat,  and decide whether any mechanical support for the floorboard bearers at that point is actually needed (and likewise for the the one frame  –  no. 3  –  which is split where it would otherwise cross the centreboard case);  you may decide that it is not.   If you decide that no support is needed you could simply leave a gap there.   Alternatively you could use CT1 to fill the gap,  as you suggest,  and since it is both a sealant and an adhesive this would also provide light support if you feel that is necessary.    I would expect that this may well be sufficient,  but I don’t currently have the opportunity of looking at a Don Marine boat to assess for myself.   In the fairly unlikely event of you deciding that more substantial support is needed the easiest would probably be to cut replacement plywood pads,  suitably morticed.

    While you are working on this part of the structure,  may I invite you to check that the limber holes are clear.   These are holes at the inboard ends of the frames and floorboard bearers,  intended to allow water to drain through the hull.   The can easily become blocked by dirt and debris,  and when that happens any water gets trapped.   As well as being an inconvenience,  if trapped water is left long enough that then becomes a breeding ground for rot.

    I will leave the matter of your mainsheet pillar for a little,  to see whether anyone who is familiar with the internal construction of this pillar chips in.    I am not,  although I have some ideas of how I would approach the job myself;   but input from someone who has actually repaired one would be most valuable.

    Hope this helps,

     

     

    Oliver

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by Oliver Shaw. Reason: Removed unactioned formatting commands
    • This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by Oliver Shaw.
    • This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by Oliver Shaw.
Viewing 15 posts - 511 through 525 (of 708 total)